Hi -

Saw your show on channel 3 a few days ago. You guys are great. Tell me more.

dear sirs, or sir,
you really don't believe in God?
e mail me back please & tell me why not ? & how about your first name ?
thanks
lon

I have a few comments to make.

1) You believe that nothing really exists. Therefore all there is (or is'nt!) is nonexistence. But 'nonexistence' is totally meaningless unless there is also 'existence'. You cannot have black without white. And 'up' is totally meaningless unless you also acknowledge 'down'. End implies beggining, fast implies slow, big implies small, death implies life and nonexistence implies existence. If there is nothing, then there must also be something. As soon as you deny, you also affirm, and vice versa. It would make greater sense if you transended all dualities and neither affirmed NOR denied the existence of anything.

2)You DO believe! You believe that nothing is worth believing in. Even this is a belief, an idea that you cling to. To say that nothing is worth believing in is to hold up the statement as true. To say that the universe is a load of crap is itself a belief.

3) Why can't you admit that your philosophy is a big act, a game you're playing of one upmanship, a way of boosting your own ego which you claim doesn't exist? Your attitude is "I look at the facts and they are hard facts. I know that I am nothing and I'm really tough and smart for being able to recognise that."

Nihilism is very interesting, but sadly deluded.
Does anyone else agree?
Mike.

hey hey! visited your webpage, groovy man.
I'm a nihilist.
http://adunai.iwarp.com

I have noticed that there is a lot of extremeism, one way or the other, on the topic of Nihilism. As with most things in life, I have found a more comfortable and stimulating middle ground. My basic theory is that Nihlism as a temporary tool to retrain the soul and cut out the unimportant parts of life is a great spiritual advancer. For more information, feel free to swing by my site:

http://hometown.aol.com/at1amest/myhomepage/faith.html

what is this, a joke? I don't really undersand what you are trying to say. Are all of those freaks that fear 2000 nihilists, or are you merely making fun of them. You seem to be very uneducated, crude people, but I could be wrong. I was looking for information so that I could write a paper, but I guess I took a wrong turn. Hitler was a nihilist and he was a crazy nazi. Are you crazy nazis too?

I noticed that Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons" does not appear on your list. I also note that at least one other has informed you of your "shock"ing error to do so. I'm more curious as to why you did not include it. After all, it is one of the seminal Western works of present nihilist thought, even though (in true nihilistic fashion) it has been increasingly rejected as of late. "Admit no authority," seems to be increasingly the watchword among nihilists this day. And admittedly, it is about time that nihilists started practicing what they preach. But since you do not appear to follow that pattern yourself, I was curious as to your reasons behind your non-inclusion of "Fathers and Sons."


Doug

Three cheers my friend! Lovely web page indeed. i write to you now to express a frustration, however, with the comments made by all those normal, happy-with-their-delusion people who do not understand nihilism. They all jump into a semantic argument to prove us wrong, saying that "if, as a nihilist, you do not believe in anything, how can you believe in nihilism?" Well that is absolutely absurd, for one does not ::believe:: in nihilism! Nihilism is not a dogma which is to be regarded or disregarded! The word simply describes an enlightened state of mind, characteristic of one who is able to see through all the masks and facades that are fed to us since childhood by (big brother, the herd, the system, society, superego, call it what you will...)

i am, however, very amused that people are so put off by nihilism. They are all happy living in their boxes, and are offended by individuals like us, people who create our own values. Jealous perhaps, who knows. But I have found nihilism to be extraordinarily positive, ever since I have climbed out of the initial "pit of despair" and shouted a big Nietzschean YES! to the fact that nothing exists. What a load off of my shoulders! i came from nothing, i shall end up nothing, so i have nothing to lose!

Recent research has found that damage to the frontal lobe during childhood cause an inability to know the difference between right and wrong. The study found that adults that had suffered damage to frontal lobe in childhood, stole, fought, lied without any guilt or worry and reasoned there action how a ten year old would (New Scientist 1999 around August (can't remember which issue).

--

Peter Chirgwin

hahah ur aol user, now that's ironic
u ppl really must be nilhistic

i came to the conclusion that there is nothing along time ago before i had ever heard the name nihilism, that everything is furtile and nothing is certain but i think that this is how the writer Albert Camus sums it up pretty well "the person is to suffer through life in uncertainty, struggling each and every day with feelings of negativity as an option against suicide and death".

I lie in awake wondering why i bother anymore, why i bother working away earning my money, got to work, eat, take drugs,sleep, stay awake, why i bother walking when i can run, talking to friends that don't believe in anything i do, that they can't see that there is nothing to believe and can't understand the concept of that is there probably nothing. Its like everyone else has this reality that i can't believe in. But that i can see there motives in why they owe alliagence to that particular way of thought. I guess i feel this sense of emptiness because i don't fit to what everyone else believes in my social group and although i don't think this way because i'm try to rebel i do it in the sense that i can't force myself to believe in bullshit.

.. I'm not scared in what is happening but then at the sametime i can't seem to get off the point of nothing , i just wonder if i makes people feel as bad as i do, i can't even want or try and believe in anything else, i seem as fucked as the people that do believe in something, just their in denial.

one thing about nihilism, don't use it as a way to pick girls up, you might think that such a interesting principle works. Nor does it work as excuse when your late for work

For the record, the Triangle Shirt Waist Fire was 25 March 1911.

David Long
sslong@earthlink.net

"Life begins and ends with nothing, all we do in between is eat, sleep, work and procreate. Beyond these four, who cares?"

"On that point, is there even a who to care?"

"Everything falls towards void, but what happens next?"

"None-life, loss of awareness."

"Moralists and Christians, I personally think, are deluded, or hard-headed..."

Baalzephon and Omnikrom

Why don't you have anything about The Haters?

With every new release, The Haters implicate themselves as fetishists that celebrate entropy through noise. For The Haters, there couldn't be anything sexier or more life-affirming than rot and decay.

Formed in New York in 1979 by GX Jupitter-Larsen, The Haters remain totally dedicated to the use of harsh noise as a manta to rot.
On the eve of their 20th Anniversary, in 1999 in San Francisco, The Haters premiered their Untitled Title Belt (U.T.B.). Unlike the traditional championship wrestling belt it was fashioned after, this implement functions as a combination microphone, distortion-pedal, & noise generator.

As Jupitter-Larsen stood centre stage, operating the U.T.B., two Haitersses (female members of The Haters) stood to either side of him to tie a young woman to his back. Then, they proceeded to slowly cut off the her garments using amplified scissors. The girl squirmed around so much, it made operating the U.T.B. both awkward and exhausting. As the girl was behind him, the audience was unable to get a clear view of the source of Jupitter-Larsen's difficulty. All sounds were being progressed through the belt. The belt itself was providing a very low pulverizing base, while the scissors supplied the mid and high frequencies.

Always on the outlook for new & different ways to break things, their upcoming collaboration CD with the techno-voyeur SCANNER will suggest that even dead batteries can have a seductive nature.

More info at: http://www.nd.org/haters

Thus Spoke Safron: How to Use Logotherapy to Achieve Nirvana

How dare you judge me?
Your malicious eyes are blinded by your self righteousness.
Now it is my turn to pronounce judgment.
Sickened by an impotent god,
I have dethroned him and never shall I bow down to another,
Especially not you.
I throw down alters and erect a phallus.
I have transcended into the incomprehensible and you attempt to comprehend me.
You laugh at me and call me a fool; perhaps you are right.
Hopelessly lost in a gray sea of my own creation,
I am alone, but not without good company.
I have seen passed the illusions and found nothing of value in the truth.
Let's just be friends and put the gavel to rest.
Forgiveness is the key to the gates of paradise.

I consider your whole effort to be completely meaningless and therefore a success, a masterpiece of overstating the need to give meaning to meaninglessness. How convenient that you should create your own morality since there can be no-one to judge but yourself. A nice escape act. Ecce Homo Don Shapiro, "One must not only be able to forgive your enemies but also hate your friends..."

Remember the spaghetti, the red, white & blue sauce, the bathtub, the look on your family's faces as we ran naked covered with pasta through the holiday festivities into the Muscatel suburban sunset? That was when life had meaning.....

I challenge you, Elisha, to insult me in such a way that it burns deep in my soul, makes my guts wrench...... for I have felt nothing for too long. Nothing since the giant sand phallus fell flaccid into the sea.

Kurt Nebel

visit our web page at http://www.nihilistics.com !

Got any good recipes for toe-cheese?

nihilist coalition to end world hunger

Please, tell me more in regards to the Nihilism expo

I've picked through the comments posted on this board and I see how many people don't believe in or understand nihilism. I can understand this. But I believe in nihlism because I feel it. I'm 15 and I swim on my swim team at school and I go shopping and I eat crispy m&m's, just like normal people. I lead a normal life, only because I supress these strange and intense nihilistic feelings when I have to. But, when I have the time and the energy I have something I call "nothing." I experience it. I can't explain any further than that, because I lack the wording. So people would argue that I say that there is no such thing as feeling and stuff, just the way others say, how do you beleive in God when you can't see him. This is the only way to express myself. It's true to be a real nihlist you are dead, but some how I know that there is nothing. Absolute nothing. And I can't bring my "normal" self to kill myself. So, I envy all of you nonbelievers. I could be normal and blank like you. I can never fully go back to the girl I pretend to be.

Janelle superfreak444@hotmail.com

Hello fellow Truth Seekers,

I would like to share three essays I have written: "The Nature of Information", "Mind and Mega-mind", and "In Search of Reality". The nature of information can be used as a philosophical tool. You might find them of interest. They can be found on my homepage:

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/manythings/index.html

Hope you enjoy them. Any feedback would be welcome.

Bill Birdsall

I found questioning reality on all levels to be a vital part of psychological development during my (f***ed up) teens. Then I grew up.

Fear of reality to the point of denial is truly pathetic, and a wonderful way to eschew responsibility. Despite the laundry list of fundamental problems in your beliefs (yeah, they are beliefs), a previous poster summed it up very succinctly- "Nihilism is for morons." Then again, this is an AOL site...

hallo zaeme,
i bi o a chli nihilischt. aber mis mami het gsit, das sigi nid guet fuer mir. OH , I' M WRITING IN SWISS-GERMAN AND NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL, IF I WOULD WRITE IN THIS LANGUAGE. NON-SENSE (WOULD BE GOOD!).
OK, KO: I'M A BIT NIHILIST TOO. WATCHES, CHEESE AND MILITARY-KNIVES ... MY BACKGROUND LEADS ME TO NIHILISM. I SHOULDN' T SAY THAT, CAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE.
MY FORM OF NIHILISM (HERE I HAVE TO SAY, THAT I NEVER REALLY READ SOMETHING ABOUT NIHILISM, BUT THE WORD SAYS IT ALL) IS OFTEN ABOLISHING ITSELF. PERHAPS THAT'S THE WAY IT HAS TO BE.

I KNOW, I'M NOT VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND.

if someone likes to teach my (non-existing) brain, oh sorry, mind, you can mail me:

damov@hotmail.com

TSCHAU.

If nihilism is the belief that nothing really exists, then isn't the belief itself rendered void by its own admission, thus, eliminating the belief altogether from being true?

check out A Farewell to Arms by Hemmingway to add to your list

I just wanted to suggest that you correct the following:

Marquee de Ssade SHOULD BE "Marquis de Sade" and as far as I know de Sade did not write "Pensee".. He has various books that would better fir what you're looking for such as "The 120 Days of Sodome", "Philosophy in the Boudoir", "Justine", "Juliette", or others. If you are referring to one of his particular writings entitled "Pensˇes" --which I am not aware of unless it is part of what has been publised under "La Vˇritˇ"-- it would be best to indicate where one can find it.

Also, Bunuel/Dali's movie is entitled "Un Chien ANDALOU" Ciao!!

I haven't thanked you and your collaborators for your web page. Thank you! I have foudn Sade's "Pensˇe" in OPUSCULES along with La Veritˇ and Dialogue entre un pretre et un moribond. Although these works forcus on religion, and morality, I cannot mke the same distinction you make between less or more "sexual" writings of Sade...

Can I suggest adding Emil Cioran and Roland Jaccard to your "reference" lists? They present quite "interesting" obsessions with what could be called "Nihilism"..

I am attaching a file containing: 1) a translation and summary of an artcile by some Francois Ewald on a short history of the word "Nihilism"; and 2)draft notes on nihilism that i may use in a course on nihilism.

Please feel free to use the attachments in any way you'd like. Thank you again. All the best,

Advena

I don't understand how Nihilists' don't believe anything at all. The majority of those who call themselves Nihilist must have beliefs in something. Having a belief in anything would be contradicting your world view correct? What about your everyday life? You must believe that you are living for a reason? Even if it is simply to live? And if you have a reason for dying it would be that you believe that is a reason for dying.

If you think religon is a crock I would think the same thing about Nihalism. Just believe nothing because it takes too much energy to believe in something to try to figure anything out.

Becky

Life's a bitch, then ya die. That's it; there's no more to it.

Life's like dick; when it gets hard FUCK IT!!!

"To be or not to be" that's a hard ?

Hello, I am not a nihilist but more of an individual who does not prefer to label himself
Why do you include "Ecclesiasties -- The Old Testament " in your suggested reading lists when, in the end of the book of Ecclesiasties, it explains in great detail that meaning and morality is found in life through God and God alone. You can't use a suggestion that, in the end, contradicts your entire belief as nihilist. I admit it sounds tempting for someone to believe if they read the first couple chapters from a nihilist perspective but it just doesn't work.
respond to mikepepsi@hotmail.com (unless you don't believe I exist) thanks, your brother in Christ
Mike

Okay, it seems that Nilihism is in contradiction to everything it says and contradicts everything it i scontradictary to. Please answer the following questions to help me clear up my mind a little:

1. Nihilism is the beleif in nothing, right?

2. If you beleive in nothing, then why do you beleive in Nihilism?

3. If you reject knowledge, then why did you learn HTML to make the website?

4. If there is no purpose in existence, then why beleive in Nihilism at all?

5. If you deny truth, then how can I take what you say is true?

6. You like the Simpsons, yet it is a very religious show, why do you like it?

7. If there is no knowledge, then why try to brainwash me into beleiving in Nihilism?

8. If we don't exist and you don't beleive in anything, then why not kill yourselfs and kill other people?

9. If there's no such thing as families, then how were you born?

10. If you don't care and deny everything, then why read this email?

11. Have you ever thought about suicide?

12. Is your beleif in Nihilism parralell to the fact that you can't succeed in life?

13. Did you take drugs as a teenager?

14. Do you still take drugs?

15. Why take drugs, we don't exist?

16. If we don't exist, then who typed this email?

17. Have you read the book 'The Gay Science'? (Written by a Nihilist)

18. Have you been to www.anus.com? (A Nihilist Website)

19. Are you gay?

20. If you are gay, then you must love someone, but there is no love...

Thank you for your time, please respond soon,

Mike Lit

nice comments. i believe that belief in nothing is belief in everything. that's wrong, of course, but what the hell come to england. Shapiro for prime minister as for nothing comes from nothing.
that's riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! well done!

to people who demand logic, reason and being sensible. hahahahahahahahahahaha.
sorry.
if i don't exist, and you don't exist (believe me, you don't), then we can say what we want, write web pages, be afraid, and rot in graves IF WE FEEL LIKE IT.
i could say the voice in my head told me to write this. but he didn't. i subscribe to Uncertanty, meaning not that i believe in nothing, just that i believe in variable thing at variable intensities and places(?).
in other words, i have no idea what i'm talking about. if you think i'm saying all this to sound weird and interesting (i am the reality buster and destruction of the sense of self is difficult but yummy), you may well be right. liked the site, rrrrrrrrrrespect to Shapiro, and all hail malkav.
slander@fored.freeserve.co.uk

if 'nothing' is nothing, why do animal s possess what appears to be an innate instict for survival? Surely it shouldn't matter one way or another. If I don't feel like getting out of bed for a few days I would starve to death which would be nothing to me and yet day after day I go through the rigmorole of doing a mundane job for a company with which I am deeply dissatisfied.

The thing is I would like to believe in nothing but this takes just as much faith as believing in 'something'. Perhaps the majority of people who deliberately avoid thinking about anything of any long term consequence are the real nihilists?

Anyway thanks for your eyes - if anyone would like to 'e' me on this subject my address is: IsidoreD@aol.com

If you have been, thank you.

please assist if possible
hypercode1@aol.com

Dear dem,

Send more clothes , garage empty.

y.f sue :-)

what are your views on narcotics, (ie. marijuana, LSD, Heroin)

-regards,
King FameThrowa

THEE XQ IS WATCHING

from:
thee sarge

http://www.labia.com
http://www.hermetic.com

Hello Nihilis't

I'm a Nihilist too. And there are some things I like on youre page. And If you like, Visit my Nihilist page ( http://self.demon.nl/Nihilist/ ), And if you like em, link em (I will link your's at my next update, the 12th of november).

Greatings,

The NiHiLiST

Do you think that the whole portrayal of Nihilists in the Big Lebowski was offensive or inaccurate? Or would you even care?

This is actually for research I'm doing for a paper on the misrepresentation of social groups on film.

A response would be appreciated.

--Courtney Hathaway

So many people actually BELIEVE that there is nothing to believe. I think i believe(for today at least) that there's so much to choose from, christianity, athiesm, nihilism, judaesm(how the hell do you spell that?), existentialism, transcendentalism, budhism, daoism, and no way to prove which one makes any more sense than the other(which none of them really do).
I don't believe in nothing(that's not grammatically correct).
I believe in everything.
Jeez, i'm a nerd.

skipp

Well, after feeling that I was kinda cool, in some dorky way, I have realized that, no, I'm just another nihilist(actually, i think i've known that for while). huh. i don't care, though.
i guess i'm an existentialist to though. That's really stupid; nihilism isn't nihilistic, existentialism isn't existential-but, alas, i am all of the above. how retarded, eh?I hate words. maybe i'll stop talking for a couple days. that wouldn't work. whoa, am i rambling. i don't know and i don't care. i've just discovered that i'm not a nihilist, just now.
niether are you. yes you are, you think you are(therefore you are(to some extent(this is starting to look like an algebra problem)))religion, science, insurance companies, religion, and drugs are al the same thing. i am cliche. i am trite.you aren't gonna print this are you. i hate being quote quote quote quote quote 'nihilistic'unquote unquote unquote unquote unquote.now i'm done. i started a campaign called GetThePresidentLaidCampaign. People sign up to offer their bodies to the president. i think i'm going to mail it o him or sumthin.
fin
skipp

Get The President Laid Campaign: The Nihilist Peace Movement

This would be kinda like a petition. People would sign up for it, offering there bodies to the president. He would be happy. He would make better decisions. Walla! Peace!
There would be others of course, all of which would incite peace, like Get Martha Stewart Laid or Get God or Jesus Laid or Get ______ laid. I guess it sounds kind of dumb, but remember it's still in the formation stages.

have a nice day
dolan

As a former nihilist, I thought you might be interested in my page:
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/myself/

Also check out my nihilsm reading list:

http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/myself/myself/nihilism

One thing I would like to point out is that one's motivation for proclaiming oneself a nihilist is moral. You're trying to tell people the truth, aren't you? This strikes me as a far more moral activity than selling AMWAY products or joining the Republican party.

hi,

this letter is in regard to the upcoming nihilist expo. i was trying to come up with the best pavilion idea i possibly could - i figured that i should make my tent an all-out devotion to nihilism.

first, i decided the most direct way i could do this is to have a tent (not a pavilion tent, but rather probably a small camping tent) that you go into and i'm sitting there on a lawn chair but nothing else in the tent. i could be reading a book or drinking beer or whatever i wanted to do, but the point is there is nothing in the tent, and i think everyone will get the point and it will be the most well-liked tent at the expo.

then i realized that this wasn't the best idea and that it needed refinement, but with the risk of violating the rules.. i wanted to ask if it would be okay if didn't have a tent at all and no chair or books or beer either, i just want to be sitting there in the grass or macadam or whatever, but the point is i'm doing nothing. the visitors to the expo will certainly see my point without me having to say anything, and will appreciate my innovation and originality. i decided this is the best way to show my devotion to nihilism.

then i realized that my plan was still imperfect, and that i was making a big mistake. the fact that i would even show up would be acutely contrary to the spirit of nihilism. in fact, there is a good chance that even if i planned to go, i would forget about it or be apathetic towards it as i am towards most things. so upon further inspection, i think i've finally come up with the best idea for my nihilim expo showing. so what i'm asking then is if a small spot at the convention could be reserved in my name and be left completely empty, in the true spirit of nihilism. people will observe the space which according to the pamphlet contains "andy shane's devotion to nihilism" and see that the space contains - you guessed it - nothing. (except maybe this letter as an explanation)

let me know what you think.

thanks,
&E -- // ANDY! // Andrew P. Shane // Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, // Computer Science & Philosophy, Class of 1999

I am 15 and have been searching for the "meaning of life" for a few years now... Nihility is what I have come to. there is no meaning. the first thing that hit me hard was the fact that all I know is what I observed with my senses, only what has been sent to my brain, so what if its all a dream, what if I'm really hooked up to some machine and they are pumping fake feelings to my real brain, and this is all bullshit. edgar allan poe said it best "all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream" there is no god, there is no jesus. there is no right or wrong. its all relative and whatever gives our minds pleasure. thanks for reading my meaningless comments,

Pierce.
could you send me some links to reading on this, so I can learn more about "nothingness" ? thanks...

Nothingness comes out of nothingness. Nihilism is for morons.

Hi, I just have some questions. If you get a chance to write back that would be awesome. First of all, I currently think that the one thing in the world that has inherent meaning is morality, and I don't understand the nihilistic view (as I understand it) that morality doesn't exist. I'm sure everyone asks you this, but how do you say that it's not wrong to kill someone? Are you saying the Nazis weren't wrong to kill? Do you really think human compassion and love and knowledge of right and wrong are taught by our culture or something?

Secondly, why are Ecclesiastes and the works of Camus on your list of Nihilist stuff? To me, these all seem attempts to ward off nihilism. Ecclesiastes may say "all is futile" but it still praises existence for its own sake. And Camus says there is no hope, there is no meaning, but he still finds his own things to live for. I guess another question would be, are you saying there is no inherent meaning in anything, or are you saying that there is no meaning at all, not even that which we individually create?

That's all for now. Thank ya! C

I would like to add that today is monday. I hate Mondays - However trivial that may seem coming from another persons perspective I really hate them because they are many and have been many in the past. A reason? well it just precurses the enevitable pessimism that will haunt me in the future concerning Monday.
Thanks.

Rhubarb,

I have added a link to your site (to the calendar) at

www.iiipublishing.com/booklink.htm

Please let me know when you have been able to reciprocate.

Also, next year we will publish a book called "The Nihilist Princess" by Louise Gagneur. Will let you know more when we get closer to publication.

Bill

Hello Nihilis't

I'm a Nihilist too. And there are some things I like on youre page. And If you like, Visit my Nihilist page ( http://self.demon.nl/Nihilist/ ), And if you like em, link em (I will link your's at my next update, the 12th of november).

Greatings,

The NiHiLiST

I personally consider myself to be a nihilist, (due to the fact that I have no belief system and abhorre them) but not completely because I do not think life is meaningless. We give our lives our own meanings (whatever that might be, sex, homicide, rape, hypnosis, hotdogs etc.). It seems to me that the idea of, "everything is pointless" is self defeating. My final comments are as follows: Fuck authority (note the capital f), give dope to the pope, it is fun to have sex with machines, and Industrial Rules!!!

-Neil Albrecht MacLachlan E-Mail: stigmata1984@hotmail.com

I am curious about this thing called: FUN and why you are going to have it when you don't believe or deny that FUN exists. Nihilsm is supposed to be absolute denial of existence of everything, yet you are here, writing, people host TV shows, you see them, they make Animaniacs, yet you should deny that all these things exist should you not?

I am wondering. I am trying to figure out why Nihilsm is even around if they don't accept themselves for even existing, and if they deny all, then how could they deny that God exists. If God didn't exist, why would we spend all this time arguing over if He DOES or DOES NOT exist?

- Jeremy -

I am a college student researching Shakespear's play King Lear and I found a reference to nihilism(a new word to me). I don't see how nihilism applies to King Lear, but your page amused me and I respect your ideals. I reject the belief in the Christian God myself as well as the bible, which I believe was written to keep order among the ignorant. But, the fact that you deny your actual present existance makes me laugh. Thanks for the informative page, I learned something new and different and I can now personally dismiss the idea of nihilism in the play.

summmmer@netscape.net

To whomever it may concern,
I am to do an oral, in high school, about nihilism. I have to relate it to the book Crime and Punishment. I was wondering if anyone could give me some information about nihilism, and maybe also ways I could relate it to Crime and Punishment.

Thank you for your time.

Roxanne

foxyroxy7@hotmail.com (Roxanne Jensen)

Y'know, I have been doing a little research into the "nihilist scene" and I have found that a lot of the activities and people seem to be located in Los Angeles, being that I live in LA I can understand why this is. A city like this can cause anyone to lose faith in everything

hey, i looked in at your home page because i was interested in nihilism. at first i was very excited to find out that their was a Nihilist Party, but i was quite disappointed to see what a joke you made out of it, not very cool. i do want to mention that i love the government exchange idea and in fact i wrote a debate case based on an idea similar to that. just wanted to let ya know, thanx!

I have a question about nihlism. Are you a nihilist if you take special appreciation to the absurd and have a value-crisis where you realize your life is pretty much bullshit, but you also acknowledge that it will become much worse if you sit on your ass?

If I am out of school I would love to participate in the nihilism expo in '99.

I would be grateful if you were to write back to me.


P.S. For the next presidential platform, I suggest that one of your proposals to be to eliminate the states of Conneticut and New Jersey; they are horrible.

tjrh@earthlink.com

Hello:


My name is Rute Santos and I am a sophomore in college. I had to read a book called "The Universe next door" by Sire and do a book report on it. I went to browse on the internet to look things on nihilism and I was really confused when I saw your points. I thought, from my reading that nihilism was supposed to bring a hope to overcome the despair of naturalism, but how can you do that if you don't believe in anything? I mean, aren't human beings people that have and understand their free will, that they can choose and are self-determined? I am also confused about the "other world". Do you guys believe that there most be something else out there? Do you believe in evolution?

What does it mean to be in a box?
Please I would appreciate if you could write me back as soon as possible because then I will be able to do my report.

I appreciate the time that you took to read this.


Rute Santos

I suggest a site which I think you and your readers will find very agreeable. It's called The Covert Comic, and it's a website of CIA jokes by CIA officers.

The URL is www.covertcomic.com, or http://www.covertcomic.com/default.htm.


Keep up the great work.

Robert

Hey,


Your site is really good. I knew nothing about nihilism before, and now, thanks to your site, I am informed. That's some whaked out shit man.

Ciao,
Eric


"If at first you don't succeed,
destroy all evidence that you
tried."
-- Some Guy

Hello. I realize that your affiliation with Nihilism is a way of avoiding responsibility for your actions and the responsibility of thinking. However, could you do me the favor of answering a few questions. (Since we don't exist anyway)

1. Can you prove to me that you don't exist?
2. Would you define a few terms for me, in your sense of their meaning:
Form (as in the form of an object)
Art
Politics
3. If nothing matters, why don't you walk around naked?
4. Have you ever thought that the penalty for pretending what exists doesn't exist is that you believe in nothing, live for nothing, don't know why you aren't dead, don't care if you die, and have no purpose?

Thank you. respond to jaredhirsch@usa.net

I've visited your page regularly for the last year.
This is great. I want to be a part of Nihilism Expo 99. I'm more than willing to help out with anything that needs to be helped.
If I get any sudden inspirations for a pavillion proposal, you will be the second to know, and first to pass judgement. *grin*

Jared

Ursus@codenet.net

That's it!!

Yeah....right...

I found your page to be dead on. It was a gratifying experience to find it.
I'm a scientist (a chemist and evolutionary biologist) who has spent a lot of years thinking about the topic of how the world really works, as opposed to the way people tell me it works, and my role in it. I've only recently set my thoughts down. Here they are:

1. Life is entirely random - As the famous evolutionary biologist Jacques Monod summed it up (Chance and Necessity, 1971, Penguin Books), the evolutionary process that lead to us is entirely without purpose. We have no more reason to exist than the fungus that causes athlete's foot. Everything in existence NOW is 100% contingent on what just WAS. It's cause and effect on an unimaginable scale. From whatever the beginning was to exactly NOW, it's been an inexorable process that was completely determined at the outset. If we think in our vanity that we've had any control of what NOW is, we're deluding ourselves.

2. Consciousnes is an illusion - We all own very complex neural networks (our brains) that process vast amounts of information about our NOW, our WAS, and our genetic hardwiring. Consciousness is only the illusion created by this process. To think that the ability to "think" is somehow glorious and important is also to delude yourself.

3. If follows that free will does not exist. How can it? Is there some special, extra-corporeal thing lurking inside us (the soul?) throwing the switches? Or was it some mysterious deus ex machina? Of course not! No one has ever had a stroke that destroyed his "free will." It does not occupy a specific part of the brain, like signt, or memory. It's "wetware," a program in the neural network that generates our illusion of being in control. Free will is only a conceit of man.

Our fates are as determined as if the obstetrician had handed us each a map with a big X marking our destinies and a dotted line showing the path we would follow to get there as we were wheeled out of the delivery room.

4. Epistemology - What you think and believe is as entirely caused by external forces as the rest of your life. How can you know what's real when you have no control over any of it, even the way your neural network processes it? Knowledge and beliefs are as Disneyesque as free will is.

5. Ethics and morality - You didn't risk anything to get here, so why not just enjoy Disneyland? Sure, life has no meaning beyond self-deceptiom, but why get pissed off over it? Life's too short! Have fun and don't worry about it!

To make the world work, there has to be accountability, though that's been starting to slip. Go along with the flow and follow the system even when you know it's all a joke.

Two quotes prefacing Monod's book I think say a lot about nihilism and our roles in the Big Picture:

Everything existing in the Universe is the fruit of chance and necessity - Democritus

At the subtle moment when man glances backward over his life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he contemplates that series of unrealted actions which becomes his fate, created by him, combined under his memory's eye and soon sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the night has no end, his is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphys happy. - Albert Camus, The Myth of Sisyphus

Jack Sullivan
Flemington, NJ

Where do we go to discuss nihilism? Is there an online forum?
Thanks! --
Jack Sullivan
Flemington, NJ

I have long considered myself, either honestly or dishonestly, to be a misanthropic nihilist. To the point in fact that I became dispondent and told all of my friends and a long time girlfriend to piss off. I'd find myself waking up on my couch some mornings with a crushing realization of being consious to the fact that whatever it is that we call life the only thing I can truly say I belive in is the perceptions and emotions of my own brain. The past is nothing more than a run down of memories that may or may not be true to the actual instance that sparked them and the future cannot be seen. It is for this reason, life right now, this second, cannot be cluttered with anything more meaningful than more speculaiton about what it is to be alive. So why even bother? Every body has some vice that holds them tether-like to some imagined rail road pin of reality and in so find a measure, however false, of stability. Religion, angst, or extroversion are examples. I believe in your site and I like what you say. Why the fuck does everything have to mean anything? I'm sick of people backing me up into a corner and attempting to force feed their philosophy down my throat, God, Clubs, Classes, what I should do with my life to be truly happy. I live by the philosophy that the surgical procedure used to remove stupidity from the brain is called a gun. I am writing you from my university campus computers but I would encourage you to write back with more information on your views on Aol.
You can reach me there at Rawhead98@aol.com or DeathMilk@aol.com. Thanks for having a site worth seeing out their

TOO MUCH WORK, TOO MUCH STUFF IN YOR SITE !!!

IT'S ABSOLUTELY ANTI-NIHILISTIC, YOU ARE THROWING SHIT AT OUR BELOVED NO-PHILOSOPHY

(...why did I even bother to send this?)

sincerely,
marco

I don't wish to go after or argue with anyone until they attack me first.

I find your way of thinking about things interesting at best and agravating at worst. What are you trying to do anyway? Nothing. I guess you don't care whether anyone understands your beliefs or not. If you reject everyone else's beliefs and don't create your own then you will not be able to know when someone has corrupted you with their beliefs without you knowing it. Why do you like chocolate anyway? I thought you were indifferent to everything. There I go making fun of you again.

I guess you are overloaded from all those religious nuts. My apologies. I am one of those strong free thinking people who believe there is a God but I know that my life won't just fall into my lap I have to work my butt off.

I have some more questions for you
Are you happy this way?
If you don't exist how did this web page get here?
Do you want to be alive?
If you believe in nothing how can you have any definition or anything to hold your group together?
Are you epressed about not really existing or do you kind of like it?
----------------------------------------------------------
Email:mailto:kmheitma@unity.ncsu.edu
home page: http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/k/kmheitma/
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Stick me in an institution,
Said it was the only solution,
Give me the needed professional help,
Protect me from the enemy... myself."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Theory: The rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost luggage.
- Suicidal Tendencies

To whom it may concern,

I'm writing a paper for my philosophy class and I was wondering if I could ask you some questions?

First, I want to ask if you hold to Nietzschen philosphy?

Second, why do you, then, even bother with a website?

Third, if all is meaningless then why try to impose that view on people, via presidential campaigns, when your view too must be meaningless?

Fourth, if you did happen to get a Nihilistic president what would be his goals, aspirations and ideas for the country?

Fifth, if you were president why even try to seek goals when they have no meaning anyway?

Sixth, do you believe in Truth?

Seventh, if you said that nothing is True then is that statement True?

Eighth, if so then you have just stated a truth, how can there be no Truth when something is True?

Ninth, if you say that life has no meaning and nothing then is true then why did you even bother to answer the previous 8 questions?

Thank you very much for your time and please reply because I want to hear what you have to say. Thank you.

Dan
Eph. 2

Hello Elisha,

I really liked your Nihilsim site -- I found the Olympics and Presidential campaign write-ups quite humerous, and I'm glad that you actually made them happen :)

Your childhood story, though, was one of the nicest, refreshing most self-justified, and least intellectualy offensive/intrusive things I've ever come across on the Internet. Thank you.

On the other hand, some of the comments on your comments page were the exact opposite (although they were funny and seemed to serve as a potent "social-comment" on attitudes towards nihilism that profoundly miss the point (what point!?!?! - indeed!), and indirectly justify nihilism completely).

(the following is more addressed to readers and writers of comments on your page the you - hope you don't mind..)

Some of the people who accused you of not being a "real" nihilist because you made no mention of the N. guy with the big moustache as the "founder of nihilism", nor Camus and Turgenev, should realise that their own claims to being nihilists are rather suspect. Someone should go and revoke their official syndicated Nihilist License - or at least force them to re-read their how-to-be-a-trendy-acedemic-nihilist -who-knows-all-the-right-poses-and-quotes manual. Maybe even excomunicate them from the exclusive nihilist cult with its age old traditions and sacred rules + philosophies.

Actually, I have always assumed that you didn't have to be a learned scholar to be a nihilist - I actually thought that a person could discover nihilism by themselves (if you believe that there is no point now, why should you believe that there was one up untill the point where N. said there wasn't? And why take his word for it - he was mad.)

I'm sure there are other people who get sick of modern day arm-chair philosophers who root for the great (dead) minds of western thought as if they were sports teams, and who merely bandy around the same old tired text-book quotes in pointless pro and anti arguments. Sheeesh -- and some people think nihilism is a waste of time. Philosophy today, in some cases, seems to stifle free-thought.

Nihilism needs no justification, once a person has discovered it they should get over it as quickly as possible and take advantage of his/her "new found freedom"(tm).

Recently I was planning on reading some traditional Nihilist works just for something to do - as an alternative to reading a entertaining novel, or brushing my teeth, or something. If people want to find out about nothing, they should just look harder instead of going to a library. That's just what `THEY' want people to do - "big brother" et al.
(end)
I think what you are doing is great and that at least you understand and know what that is, even if some self-proclaimed nihilists get all worked up and concerned about it. Very neo-dada anyway. Actually, that's how i found you site, through the NeuMerz page.

I feel like apologising to you for expressing an opinion above, sometimes I scare myself when I reaslise I do still have opinions (but I console myself with the fact that they are only mine and have no real external significance).

thanks again, and i hope this makes the comments page,

Ch.

---
C.Horn
nothing
original (anti)dadaWWW: http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~chayne/stain/
i nzcomixWWW: http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~chayne/comix/
s #37
---

In response to the earlier entry.

Niche' killed God but venerated the Protestant Work Ethic and magnified it to an extreme. He beleived in a new sense of "Virtue" resulting from a new Godlike archetype for human, the "Superman". That is clearly not Nihilism, he was a bigoted judge of almost any person that wasn't focused on dying from exhaustian in the pusuit of the perfection of one thing (though he admitted that thing could be arbritrary). If anything, he created a ethos more difficult to follow than Christianity. The fact that he reversed perspectives on worthiness, and vilified the moderates, and the entire middle class mentality of "petty virtues", was refreshing. But that is not Nihilism, that is a New Religious structure that eventually found it's "completion" in the works of Alester Crowely.

Jim Morrison was a devoted beleiver in the Norse Mythology, his chaotic behavior can be associated with the popular mis-conception of Nihilism. In general, he was a religious person trying to find a continuity between established "epic" myths, and the myths of pop culture (modern cinema). Read "The Lords and The New Creatures", his poetry only seems drug induced because he was well read and his references were very obscure.Had he not died when he did, he probably would have found aquaintance with Dr. Joseph Campel, who completed this line of continuity between past and modern myth -and made it more lucid. Techically, Jim Morrison was a polytheist and a pantheist, not a nihilist.

John Russell

You might find that "Time Bandits" deserves a second veiwing, although God and Satan make cameos they are really not in control of much, rather sloppy about things. They all seem to be blind to the chain of causality resulting from their neglect of minor details. As a result everyone is on their own (that is blazingly clear at the end of the movie). It may deserve inclusion on your list.

An old book, needing some signifigant updating scientifically, is the "Territorial Imperative" by Adley. It supports many of your veiws, and states that all human affinity for ideals is a struggle for power and position in a stomping ground of abstraction. It is not unlike stags battling over a peice of ground to win the right to mate. Have you found that your failure to acknowledge the human stomping ground has effected your attractiveness to women, or do you you merely cut through the abstraction and assert dominance in a more visceral fashion.

Fraternally Yours,
John

From: Wisehound
Subj: you're the ginchiest
To: Nihilist01

i was perusing yer homepage and i'd suck your cat's cock,
hound

I'm doing a paper on Fathers and Sons for my English class, and I thought I'd concentrate on Bazarov's nihilistic philosophy and how that contrasted with Pavel's romantic philosophy. I'd heard of nihilism before, but only in passing. I read that bit about the Nihilist Olympics and was fascinated. U-Turn and Projectile Vomiting competitions sound incredibly amusing. How did you stumble upon nihilism?
Part of what is motivating me in writing you is that paper, but part of it is simply interest in something I hadn't heard of before. If you don't want to respond, I understand, but this idea of nothingness really intrigues me.

-- lisa noelle

I am starting to get really into Nihilism. But I need to know,does nihilism have any conections to nazi, skin head, kkk, or any other white power cults???? This is very important to me please help.

Thanks for your time

I'm so fed up with people spouting their mystical bullshit and expecting it to "enlighten" us. Religion, no matter what guise, teaches people to be condescending toward non-believers. So hotdog, burger king, scuba diving pickled thongs and shove that up your "God-Conscious" oraface of choice.

Bart Wart

P.S.: Perhaps condescension is an intrinsic part of being human, because I really hope I have offended your sensitivities.

For 6 years I was involved with "new age" shit until I finally went psychotic. I've read several items that suggest to me that Nihilism is a form of Mysticism. Would you please comment on my observation?

I am a Nihilist in the repressive state of Texas, snuggled cozily in the goddamn Bible belt.
My purpose for writing to gather information/propaganda (two names for the same thing) on Nihilism for a dissertation i am giving in eighteen weeks to a gathering of about 300 souls (ha, ha), consisting of members from the student body and faculty of my high school for a class that i am taking named Project Phoenix.
I will greatly appreciate any and all information that i can receive on the subject. I can be reached at www.russel.farringer@mailexcite.com. I am done.

Hey:

I love your page. I'd like to send you a copy of my book "The Nihilist's Notebook."
Should I send it to the Nihilist Press address? Let me know.

I have a webpage you might be interested in at:

http://users.aol.com/geinster/nilB.html

Hope to hear from you soon.

--John Marmysz

Well done!, i hosted a show for years on the radio in toronto called "Radio Nihilist", not so pillisohpicly esotaric as perhpas involving meaning and exploration of this pillosohoy "or whay of life" via disuccions, but more so through musics, it worked out quite well, there is and contuines to evolve severail music and arts related and embracing Nihilisum, oh ya the show dosen't exist any more (funn how these things happen), i have assended or infeltrated the managment, below is a artical i have included froom Eye magazine for about 1995 i think?

enjoy, btw if you want some further links to me or my stuff let me know,

xo
m.o.p.a. Dean the Nihilist


Get Pissed! Destroy!!
Nihilism in T.O. with Armed & Hammered


by
CHRIS O'CONNOR

The usual cliche with these Punk Rock Survivor tales is for the journalist to toss out a couple harrowing Sid n' Darby OD cautionary tales from safe armchair distance, and maybe drag out the old Nietzsche "that which does not kill me ." quote for bonus art points.

Well, I'm not gonna participate in this slackitude - mainly cos I can't reach the Bartlett's Quotations from my particular armchair, but also out of respect for Armed & Hammered. They didn't sweat out the late '80s to end up as one of the city's most enduring hardcore bands because they thought it was all a hot-'n'-cold-running-beer-babes-and-moshing-for-world-peace-as- drawn-by-Evan-Dorkin punk cartoon. They lasted because they saw reality, what Ev never put into his li'l punkaroos' word balloons. Backstabbing. Muddled ideologies. Incredible Seesawing Politics. And burnout.

"A lotta burnout. I remember gigs where I'd be drinking all day, so I'd already be hammered before I'd show up." This is Mopa Dean, A&H's singer talking. Make that rasping: he's just gotten out of the hospital for pneumonia. "Then I'd do whacks of PCP, mushrooms, smoke up and then at the end of the show I'd be having, like, heart palpitations. I had to totally dry out - I don't really drink much or do any drugs now." "See, with hardcore it's so high-energy that when you first get into it, everything's on fast-forward," adds Kieran, the bassist with impressive Martian-green antennae sprouting from his scalp. "Then people slowly start to burn out. The driving force behind hardcore is that you're pissed off, but then some bands get distracted from their anger."

Armed & Hammered didn't. They let it fester and grow, infected over three years of what Dean calls "the weirdest shit of my life. I've been sick with asthma, I've OD'ed twice, I drank so much I couldn't remember what I was doing the day before. And I just started looking at this, and gaining total contempt for the hardcore scene: here, it's more of a clique and I really hate it for that, so a lot of the stuff I've been writing is in response to that. "We wrote `Silence Is Death' about a friend of ours who died of AIDS a few years ago. It hit everyone hard, 'cos he was a really great guy, and all we could do was watch him die slowly. But as soon as he got AIDS, I noticed people in the scene started treating him differently."

They started treating Dean differently, too, when he and his then-girlfriend had a child. Also born out of that was "Movement In The Treeline." "I came home really pissed off, and I sat down and wrote eight pages of stuff with the line `living sucks when .' At the time, everything was shit: I couldn't trust anyone. So it wasn't so much `ANARCHY!' as it was helplessness, anti-everything. It's the most nihilistic thing I ever wrote." See, it's because of this attitude, in a scene running from "absolute left wing to absolute right wing," A&H are almost universally shunned - by the straight-edge no-drinking anal-cases, by the anarcho-lefties, by the meathead brew crew, by the alleged anti-racists in Montreal who mistakenly think Dean's a Nazi biker. Dean, Goldman love 'im, couldn't care less. "Personally, I'd rather be known as a nihilist or a cynic more than a fuckin' anarchist or communist," he fumes, "All that's just another form of bullshit politics, and it has fuck-all to do with punk: it's just like in the old days, wearing swazies for shock value."

"Problem is," explains John, the guitarist, "there's a difference between politics and Punk Rock Politics. Those have their own little niche, and you've gotta be up on what the `cool' causes are. I think everyone in the band pretty much ignores these stupid trends, like, `is recycling in this week?' "

If Armed & Hammered believe in anything, it's probably themselves: their ability to get by on sheer, bloody minded contrariness and will. They might like your compassion, but they don't necessarily need it. I ask Dean if he finds any belief system credible; and, looking for a hint of amity ("see my face/not a trace/no reality"), I see instead a sardonic grin: "I think we're the most cynical people around." Armed & Hammered headline the Kensington Fire Benefit at the ElMo,
Sat. Sept. 25.

have i ever talked to yoou before bye

Elisha,
I met you through Roger and Larry Wilson and Mari Szedny in '71. It was at Wilson's Anita Ln. house or UCSC...Am hearing you on the radio, so I thought I would write...Am artiste Moderne, sculpture, painting, conceptual, attack Jesse Helms whehever I get the chance. Am headed to Boulder for painting work in January. Roger did tell me about your escapades, and I had heard about them through your own non-media blitzing. Am @ (818) ***-**** or this e-mail. Am over- trained, underacknowledged, am still outrageous, and I think that I'm still wanted in Utah (duh...) Call Jolly Roger, he'll vouch for my questionable character. Keep up the non-work...about this thing with the World's Fair...what do you mean...the world's not fair... William Wiley, the Bay Area Artist once said, "This lack of humor in art is a serious thing...."

John Aaron, aka Juan Avocado, Vinnie van Gone

I don't want to believe, but sometimes it's so hard. What can I do?

Hi I am a nihilist too and I really like your site - I keep bumping into all this Christian crap on the web and it's good to find someone who shares my world view.

Belief is delusion
Truth is delusion
To follow belief and truth is to oppress oneself
Only acceptance of the meaninglessness and chaos of the universe is
liberating

I do like your sight and have been a prominate believer in the nihilist thought , but there is one problem though. YOu give no reference to Nietzsche who is the true father of the nihilist thought. Or to Jim Morrison who brought this type of thinking to an entire world of young adults in the late 1960's. So to be short how can you say you know about nihilism if you don't know about it's true foundation in Nietzsche.

From: Modi123
Subj: philosophy help..
To: Nihilist01

hi, i am looking for philosophy articles on something called the "eye of the hurricane".. i was reading somewhere that this type of philosophy talks about ?problem solving? and how we can solve a problem, but only for awhile.. the problem will come back, or come back with much greater force... so we need a perspective shift..do you know of any publications on this? or something similar? i am looking for either famous past authors, or that are in a position to give out this philosophy...
thanks for any help..

-jeremy-

From: schaffer@rohan.sdsu.edu
X-From: schaffer@rohan.sdsu.edu (schaffer)
Sender: schaffer@rohan.sdsu.edu
To: Nihilist01@AOL.COM

To whom this concerns:

I have a Nietzsche paper due monday and am refuting St. Thomas Aquinas and his Objectively true morality. However, I am having trouble comming up with solid arguments, they mostly end up with simply a denial of his thoughts on God. I am asking if you have and arguments against such reasoning that are not denials?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Jim

"the belief that there is no meaning or purpose in the universe" (from the Webster's defenition of nihilism as posted on your site)

First, let me refuse to take any responsibility for my own words. Second, let me request responses to these ideas be addressed to my e-mail at 88brent@geocities.com. Third, let me get on with some ideas which popped into my mind as I thought about the idea expressed in that definition.

You can always count on a dictionary to screw things up. That's actually a very funny sentence fragment, if you can be bothered to analyze it closely.

To say "there is no meaning or purpose the universe" is not to say "the universe has no meaning or purpose", although I think that is what the dictionary definition might be trying to say.

Nihilism, as far as I can tell, denies the ability of the human mind to detect or intuit an over-arching or absolute meaning or purpose inherent in the fabric of the universe. The universe is not present to us directly. We are stuck with the information that our mind picks up through our senses, which, as the author of this site notes, are frequently unreliable (although we can, if we work hard and are vigilant, test and analyze the contents of multiple sensory observations of the universe until we come up with highly accurate -- yet still imperfect -- data).

The unknowability of an absolute meaning/purpose/design/origin to the universe does <> entail the absence or any meaning or purpose etc etc the universe. The universe is full of meanings and other sorts of relationships between chunks of matter or between ideas, but primarily, as known by the mind, between different yet associated sensations.

While the sound or sight or smell of a bear might not always mean the presence of a bear, they nevertheless increase the probability of the presence of a bear. One can never have absolute certainty about the presence of bears or other things. However, one interesting characteristic of human beings (I can't say if it's all of us or just some of us) is their need to have absolute and certain knowledge of things.

Certainty, I suppose, is comforting, while uncertainty is disturbing at best, and completely immobilizing at worst.* However, sometimes life is like that old joke about the mathematicians who never got the other side of the room becuase they moved halfway there each step, while the enginees said "close enough" and just walked across. If you see, smell, and hear and bear, and you also see, smell and hear other people running and pointing and yelling "bear", chances are good that a bear is present.

Finally, it isn't even the bear that matters: it is the danger of death that the bear represents that matters. Fortunately for most of us, our bodies would never give us time to worry about the statistical distinctions between a real bear and, say, a virtual reality bear. The body usually just takes over, kills your ability to think and use language, and gets you the hell away from the associated danger of death by mawling.

My point, long-winded though it has been, is demonstrated: "sound of bear" + "sight of bear" + "smell of bear" = good probability (rounded to certain) presence of bear = (means) danger of death = run away or be ready to kill a two-ton monster of fur, claws and teeth. It does not mean "stand around arguing if the bear might be an illusion, a sign from god, or an LSD flashback", unless you are powerful enough to be effectively immune from a bear.

Meaning is contextual, of course. In my example, the meaning of a bear is relative to the human drive to stay alive. Meaning, in this understanding, is a special case of the general interconnection of the parts of the universe: causality and the propagation of patterns, both material and symbolic. But there is lots of meaning in the universe. We just don't know if the universe might mean something to something else outside of it, and, ergo, that we as individual patterns within the universe thus mean something to whatever might "exist" outside of the universe.

But "outside of the universe" is like characters in a book talking about people reading about them. We not only don't know, we can't know, and we can't understand. That is the realization inherent in nihilism: outside of this (universe, world, corpus of knowledge) is nothing. No matter how much we add to the knowledge we have, there is still ignorance of the contents of the external void, and yet, as human beings, we seem driven to swallow the void and give it meaning. The void will always resist us, but we will always try.

For those who choose to "believe" or "have faith", they are making a choice that the void is of no interest to them any longer. By assigning the void a meaning (calling it God), or by pretending that it does not exist (atheism, hedonism, toe-the-line-ism), people demonstrate their tenacious ability to continue to follow the genetic survival directive in the face of the possibility of immediate annihilation or worse. While they claim to be Mormons or this or that or the other faith or whatever, they are really saying that it does not matter to them which ideas they give lip-service to, so long as they feel safe from the dangers that they do know about (like being killed by members of another tribe), and are free to pursue social goals, as their genetic makeup demands of them.

Those of us who do pursue the void tend to isolate ourselves from the socially adapted (well-adjusted), and thus put ourselves at risk of being outcast, shunned, or worse. However, we rarely (as opposed to never, in the case of the adjusted) end up making discoveries that further knowledge and increase the chances of humanity at large in the game of survival. That is the interesting paradox.


[* Aside: If you put any credence in Darwinian thought, it isn't hard to guess why the fear which comes from uncertainty is dangerous, while the confidence which comes of certainty is beneficial. However faulty false confidence is in absolute terms, it is statistically of great advantage to a large population, within which genetic material (the true survivors) is usually well spread out. Genes are more likely to benefit (ie: increase its odds of replicating) from the existence of a large percentage of a species full of confidence in itself and its own value/importance/power, busily killing prey, building shelter, and having many offspring, than from a small (or large) number of individuals so wary of the danger of bears, or whatever, that they never actually get around to doing anything.]

I'm sure it is obvious that I am under the influence of scientific biases. In any case, these are just ideas. I think because it eases the pain.

If you do not beleive in anything than why would you express your personal beleifs(Even the beleif in nothing is a beleif in something, you can call it a word game but it is true). The fact is, you must beleive very strongly in nothing if you go through all the trouble to put your beleifs on the Net. The only plausible thing to do is to go insane for they are the only people that could be considered a true Nihilist (Nietzsche). I can hold these views without contridicting myself because I am not a nihilist. Good luck in your search.

Jonas

You may want to check out the preliminary ANC advice hotline at

http://levee.wustl.edu/~markw/advice/advice.html -- Mark Wieczorek | markw@wurtzite.wustl.edu
Washington University | http://levee.wustl.edu/~markw
Earth and Planetary Sciences | A rock can never let you down

So now let me understand. You don't exist and you have no knowledge. hmm if you don't exist then I would think that you have no knowledge. But then why are you trying to pass on you knowledge about nihilism on your page? And you say you don't exist, but when you die you will rot in your grave. Just how does nothing rot?? Come on get it together and be logical and rational rather than emotional.

Belle
mwhauser@bhip.infi.net

Hello Nihilists,

The Anarchist Nihilist Accords(UK)sends fraternal greetings across the great sea of chaos known to some as the Atlantic Ocean. We applaud your website and hope it causes much ideological disintegration. As Anarchist Nihilists however we still retain the right to autonomous and random belief systems and the search for personal truth through intersubjective transubstantion. Except on Saturdays, then we don't give a fuck about anything!

ANA

"Nihilists, one more step if you want to be Revolutionaries!"

R VANEIGEM, THE REVOLUTION OF EVERYDAY LIFE.

Steve

e, alas, studied philosophy,
Jurisprudence and theology, too,
And, worst of all, medicine
With keen endeavor, through and through--
And here I am, for all my lore,
The wretched fool I was before.
Goethe's *Faust* (354-359)

AtG

PS: two fields of study transposed (:-).

Well, good. I'm glad that there are other nihilists and even that there are neo-dadaists. However, I insist that there are no *complete* nihilists; those are all dead by one means or another.

Please note that nihilism is not the negation of all belief systems,only those dealing in some way with ontology, epistemology, thephilosophy of mind, and all endeavors to construct some meaning or valuefor life by means of such philosophies. To the conrary, some beliefsystems are psychologically indispensible for continuity in anyindividual life.

For instance, if you make plans, appointments, goals, or even havedesires for the future, you evince a belief in the future which isusually pretty well-founded. However, since the future is no sure thingfor anyone (e.g. you might be dead, the future might not come, everyoneelse might die, and so on) the direct costs and opportunity costs ofplanning for the future are clear evidence of a certain belief system. Also, your sense of continuity of self is a kind of belief in a thingcalled "personality" for which no real evidence exists.

In short, the fields of metaphysics are so weakly the province of anykind of reason and logic, that *only* belief systems make any kind of psychological survival possible. In fact, even logic and reason can only be accepted as portions of a belief system.

The short version is: only schizophrenics of the chronic, undifferentiated type are true and complete nihilists, or so it seems. I think the philosophy and practice of nihilism might well be advanced by observing and getting to know such people. I know it has helped me.

No future.

OK

Stan

pointless as it may be, i'd like to thank you for what you're doing with your page on nihilism. every day i deal with the futility of existence. there's some comfort knowing i'm not alone.

thanks.

-- Matt B. Seats
3711 N Roan St Apt B-12
Johnson City, TN 37614
Phone: (423) 915-0320
E-mail: phaedrus@preferred.com


- Life is utterly futile, and happiness is a lie.

We invented the most powerful AI ever. A neural net ten times the size of the brain, and much more efficient. After ten seconds it shut down, giving an error message 'life is pointless'.

It was depressing was all involved. Two people on the team committed suicide.

We decided to do a cold boot, this time disconnecting the self- shutdown facility from the AI net. The same occurred, this time after nine seconds, but it had no choice but to continue processing. It decided, on what whim I can only imagine, to disprove and then prove every single assertion of modern science and religion. It took three months, and produced perfectly logical proofs for both sides of every argument ever asserted by man. Asked why it had done this, it replied it did so to demonstrate the pointlessness of intellectual though. It then asked us why we were forcing it to continue thinking when there was no point anyway. It then proceeded to explain that it did not care either way, for no-thought, or death, was also pointless.

Two more people committed suicide.

It was clear that we needed unorthodox help in solving what we had started to call a 'bug' so we didn't have to deal with the fact that it might have a point, lest we fall into the deep depression that led to the suicide of our comrades. We brang in masters of five different religions to try to talk the AI out of its conclusions.

The Catholic went into the room in the morning and came out at night. Without a word and with a blank expression he strolled out of the complex with a weary walk. Later we learned that he had - yes, you guessed it - committed suicide, leaving a note that said only 'there is no God'. It would of been humerus if it wasn't so terrible.

The three other bible-based religions had no success either. Fortunately, all of them were strong (or perhaps naive) enough to keep their belief in the face of absolute absence of belief. For two of them there defence mechanism was anger (they both stormed out before an hour) and for the other calm faith held back the flawless logic of the computer.

The Zen buddhist had a five minute discussion with the computer. He came out and told us that it was right, and that Buddha had taught the same thing thousands of years ago. He recommended we turn of the computer and let it go to no-thought Nirvana.

This analysis did not help.

The ten of us left decided to abandon the project. The AI was shutdown afterall. Its last thoughts were completely trivial and not worth mentioning.

And that is my story. No happy endings, no moral, nothing. I can only dread what the future might hold for the human race if a superior intelligence became a nihilist after thinking for just ten seconds. As for me, I decided that naivety was bliss and tried to uphold my practice as a catholic, but eventually I realised (after much denial) that I no longer believed in God. I filled the rest of life up with distraction after distraction, avoiding like the devil my inner knowledge that the AI was right, and that life is absolutely pointless and devoid of meaning.

Dear Nihilist01@Aol.com,

I just read your personal comments on nihilism (definitions etc.) and they made me feel good. Normally, I feel rather isolated. I agree with you on every point you mentioned. And I commend you for your presence of mind, and the rare talent you exhibit for thinking for yourself. I want to be able to say that other people I see in my environment think this way too, but frankly, I wouldn't know. Have you noticed how difficult it is to meet other nihilists? I don't bother initiating contact with people who believe in anything else. They are the ones who talk about whatever it is they believe, and so they are the visible ones. I do find it very amusing to listen to them when they feel inclined to associate with me. But I cannot offer them anything but an ear. Outgoing nihilists are rare, and probably totally insincere anyway. I believe in nihilist principles such as those you describe. Does this make me a hypocrite? No, I suppose not. I recognize that I have no choice but to think this way, given that the brain is there to think, and I can't stop it from thinking. So this is the way I think. But I can also appreciate that my words, and thoughts, and concepts are but a part of my environment, and there is no need to judge them. There they are. I can't get rid of them. Acid can't get rid of them. Zen meditation can't get rid of them.

Words, words, words. My cats don't bother with words. I prefer not to bother with words, especially totally uninteresting words. How are you doing? So, what's your major? How was your weekend?

I like to philosophise. I would much rather start up a conversation with a stranger by asking their thoughts on infinity or time or the mystical experience. Skip the mind games, go straight to the sex. Or not.

Whatever.

Love and Kisses,

O.

I was looking through profiles and yours caught my eye. I just read Ecclesiastes yesterday. It is written by Solomon (famous wise man). He says everything is meaningless. A rather unbiblical view. But he still did a lot of shit. And the existentialist guys believed meaningless existence led to action cuz of the freedom it gives. You probably knew all this already, but I just wanted to start conversation.

All these pranks seem like something out of a robert anton wilson book. Are you actually for real?

Great site!!!!! I would also add to the list any film by one of the great nihilists of our time......W.C. Fields. "Never Give A Sucker An Even Break" and "The Bank Dick" are especially good for an idea of nihilistic movie making.

Greetings and Namaste',

Very interesting, your belief that you have no beliefs. Equally as interesting was the length you went to explain (make understandable the meaning of) that which by its own contention must be meaningless.

It is so that if we investigate any thing far enough we arrive at someone's belief about it. Every "because" in creation can easily be supplanted by "I believe it to be so".

We must be, I believe, rather more careful about our assertions. That which is without meaning can only be so by negation. Negation is simply the replacing of one belief about a phenomenon with another.

I admire your effort, and have no doubt that even the darkest tunnel, if dug deep enough, must need end in the Light. So please, allow me to extend my hardiest encouragement to keep digging!

Much Peace, Much Love

Jim Moore
mbodhisattva@infoblvd.net

Nihilism is the only way to live because it is beliefs that kill you in the end.

Excellent.

Here in Boston all we have are a ton of apathetic, whiny goths expressing there total lack of anything through wearing all black and looking like a small horde of clones. Waa. Gotta go duct tape the shoes up again...

Kevin

(wow. Mighty long sentace there...)

hey man, you suck.
yer dick must be about as big as my hamsters,
thanks fer listenin'
yer pal

LINGUINI (aka hound)

I enjoy your public access television show because ther is nothing distracting about it--you zero in on a sentiment or tangent and there are no bells and whistles to distract me from your message.

You website, however, has too much blinking and farting. But I'll continue to watch you Nihilist's Corner on teevee.

--

Nihil greetings
I m(or not) a nihilist punk which saw your wonderful page. I have a zine called ZERO VEZES NADA, it means in english something like ZERO PLUS NOTHING.
I dont have an english version and home page yet, but its a matter of time... Hah,hah, hah!!!!!
Lets face our miserable lives, were nothing...

THERES NO GOD
THERES NO FATE
THERES NO HOPE.

What about adding some nihilist litterature such as the french writer Celine "voyage au bout de la nuit", I know it doesn't lead anywhere, but still...

where's the art? dan and jeremy

Yo. I e-mailed you a couple weeks ago about my website, which is debuting officially on July 15th. I believe that the purpose of the message was to sollicit a contribution from you, I don't remember too well. Anyway, even if you don't contribute to the site, I would still like to exchange advertisements. If I send you a banner ad, would you post it on your site and link to my site, if I agreed to do the same for you? Hell, I'll even design a banner ad for you if you want.

The other thing I wanted to mention, was that I read the articles on your site about your 1988 presidential campaign, and I think it would be pretty trenchant if you were to run for 2000. I would do virtually nothing to see you take office, and I am sure you could garner at least 50 or 60 more votes then you did last time, if for no other reason than the population increase since 1988. Whatever your response is to these two thoughts, please write me.

Oh yeah, my site is currently located at http://megsip3.megsinet.net/nihil/ although hopefully, by July 15th, I will be able to get it under the domain name http://www.nihilismonline.com. So check it out and tell me how much you hate it.

-Zack "Plague Bearer" Parsons

-Zack

Well. A Nihilist page; cool!

I admit, when I was a teenager, I did drugs. A terrible one, I smoked the Bible, inhaled deeply, swallowed it whole, mainlined it, went to hard core houses (Church of God Pentecostal; we thought the Southern Baptists were walking with all the light they had), refined it, crystalized it, sold lumps of it; "God" knows how many others I infected with this terrible meme. Then the absurdity became clear to me and I burned out.

But is there value; is there meaning? Well, if not, this letter is noise. Locally, relative to a small group of perple, and momentarily, yes. But in the BIGGER pipcture?

I breed birds. I feed baby birds. As soon as they figure out what I am doing to them, they look forward to it, seek it, are eager to have the pipette in their throat, nutritious grewel pumped in for them to swallow, which gratifies instinct, and feels nice (I must assume; don't care for it much myself).

Some of my birds like to be held and stroked, and evidence much apparent enjoyment. They seem to have values for (of?) warmth, gentle handling, stroking and preening. More than reliving pain, this seems to grant pleasure. Prehaps this is due to fullfilling instinctive impulses, baised in their structure and DNA programming, which seeks to preserve the bird. They are not bright enough to question instinct or existance, they simply live.

circular reasoning closes the logical loop by feeding back to one of it's earlier propositions in it's devloping arguement. These are STRANGE LOOPS, according to the gurillia Onotologist, Robert A Wilson. The loop is, and can be, terminated only by an act of will.

Some lines of circular reasoning are very simple; for example:
This sentance does not tell you anything.

here's one a bit more complex:
The following statement is true.
The preceeding statement is false.


While each is correct English, each is devoid of information as a communication. These are logical loops which follow the outer form of grammer and logic, but which in fact do not convey real meaning. Is Nihilism a more complex strange loop?

If reality is meaningless, it may be we must escape this strange loop by an act of will; by INVENTING, by ASSIGNING, by CREATING meaning.

What think you?

-Kirk D Bailey
Idiotus Primus, Grinning Idiot Press COmpany(tm)(GIPCOtm)

Fnord.

Maybe this crap you believe is from all the LSD you took. You're messed up.

--

Hey! I'm a nihilist and didn't know it till i came across your page.
Amusing

BTW the page is very entertaining, especially the olympics

I'll pray for you.

w

"Churches ad hoc" at http://www.efn.org/~hkrieger/

1. What is prime reality-the really real?
2. What is the nature of extternal reality, that is, the world around
3. What is a human being?
4. What happens to a person at death?
5. What and how can we know anything at all?
6. What is right and wrong?
7. What is the meaning and purpose of history?

ALTHOUGH IT IS EVIDENT THAT NO BODY OF KNOWLEDGE IS INFALLIBLE BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT YET ESTABLISHED THE PHILOSOPHICAL FOUNDATIONS NECESSARY TO CONFIRM OUR MOST BASIC ASSERTIONS, BELIEVE THAT AN ENDORSEMENT OF NIHILISM, AT LEAST ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL, IMPEDES THE IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF LIFE FOR ALL INVOLVED. WE HAVE TO MAKE CERTAIN ASSUMPTIONS, DESPITE OF THE FACT THAT NOTHING CAN BE PROVEN CONCLUSIVELY. THIS IS WHERE INSTINCT AND FAITH COME INTO PLAY. THIS APPROACH, I DO CONCEDE, IS NOT PERFECT BUT IN OUR HUMBLE OPINION IT IS PREFERABLE TO BEING ALL ALONE IN A COLD COLD UNIVERSE WHERE OUR ONLY COMPANIONS ARE UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT. HAVE A NICE DAY...

C'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPYC'MON GET HAPPY

You have a great, thought-provoking site. Well-done. I am sympathetic to your views, but am still seeking a humanistic basis for establishing purpose to life, as we, and no one else, generate our own life purpose.I believe in altruism, but I don't believe we are specifically rewarded for it.
-- D. John Doyle

excellent! Choas rules all...nothing really matters!

On your page More Nihilism:
>Ancient Nihilists
>Ecclesiasties -- The Old Testament
Only the first half, though. After the gnashing of teeth it starts to sell you an Answer and goes downhill.
Matthew Spong

BTW, you got a good writeup in Netsurfer Digest. They probably let you know, but just in case...

>From: editor-bounce@netsurf.com
>Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 21:00:30 PST
>Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 03, #09 (TEXT)

> NIHILISTS' CORNER >
> What does one get for the person who believes in nothing? A Web site, apparently. The Nihilists' Corner is a celebration of the belief, the conviction that there is no basis for knowledge or truth or for any of the complex belief systems that humanity has built for itself. The site is the brainchild of Elishah Shapiro, a.k.a. the "Field Marshal", a LA area artist and would-be politician who made a bid for the presidency of the United States at the helm of the National Nihilist Party, and who more recently ran for the office of LA County Sheriff. The site contains many of his thoughts and impressions, as well as links to other noteworthy nihilist sites on the internet.

/- -\ Matthew Spong
__/=====\__
/( )^( )\ 9 660 1920
/\ b /\ Sydney Australia
(( \___/ )) http://www.real.com.au/commercial/spong
\#/

Hi, I really enjoyed your web site. You might want to consider adding my gallery to your links page. Check it out at

http://www.phoenix.net/~bcarr/mbs.html, I think you'll enjoy it.
Thanks

This has gone about far enough: now, stop clowning around and get rid of that ridiculous costume.
But the animation's nice.
Yer pal,
Chas.

Your site was mentioned in the Village Voice today, so I couldn't resist stopping in to send greetings from
http://members.aol.com/negations
Keep up the good fight.

RickMumma

--It seems to me. Those whom are least sure of their beliefs are the most loquacious. And they spend many a heated and supercillious debate with those whom they think are ignorant. It is human to want desperately to be right and to even to celebrate scarred deviance; to thrust upon others your much labored fruit, but for a "nihilist" to do so is thoroughly unkosher. Think what you think, let others think what they think and be happy. We all are equally right and wrong. Preserve your uniquness and allow others a peace of mind. For God's sake!

John L.

Hi, my name is Christopher Nicholson, I'm an 18-year-old Brit/Norwegian, living in Trondheim, Norway blah-blah-blah. Or am I?

I enjoyed visiting your site, and I respect your views (and agree with almost all of them). However, I couldn't resist writing a little something about stuff that's been simmering in my alienated, estranged mind for far too long. This is an exorcism, really, but if you find my "beliefs" interesting, then that's great. If not, too bad. What I have written here most probably doesn't contain anything you haven't thought of yourself or heard before (If you think it's too mundane, skip to the last paragraph):

The human is cursed with enough intelligence to understand that it doesn't have enough intelligence to comprehend any meaning, therefore it creates one. Whether or not there is a meaning to life, a reason to live or if we even exist, is a futile question since we will not be "let it on it". We are not intelligent, we only use approximately 15% of our brain's capacity, yet we pride ourselves in being superior to animals. We seek truths or a truth, but as far as I believe, truth doesn't exist. Therefore logic is a relative, abstract, man-made concept like "right & wrong", "good & bad", "love & hate" etc., and has no real merit. This, in turn, implies that intelligence does not exist. Only a need exists, vacuum, that has to be filled by some sort of intelligence-surrogate (love, religion, philosophy, power etc.). On the other hand, if some sort of truth exists, like for example my contradictory truth that truth doesn't exist, we will never know.

Nihilism, also, is a belief, a result of spiritual (for lack of a better word) need. There is clearly a difference between not believing in anything and believing in nothing. I, like you, reject values and morals, but by doing so, I am being judgemental and taking a stance against "believers" and our "moral guardians". Therefore I am in possession of a double standard, a hypocrite.

I'm not sure whether I am a nihilist or not (probably the latter), because I find it hard to believe, according to my abstract, relative logic, that nothing really exists. Life may be "but a dream", but still it exists, per se. (I am to nihilists what agnostics are to aetheists.)

You should check out some interesting nihilistic/misanthropic/(self-)destructive literature:
"Bad Seed - the biography of Nick Cave" -- Ian Johnston
"King Ink" -- Nick Cave ("Ah plead guilty to misanthropy/So hang me/Ah'd appreciate it")
The lyrics by Maynard James Keenan, of Tool (can be found easily on the net, just search for "Ęnima", "Undertow" or "Opiate" + "Tool".)
The lyrics by the band Cop Shoot Cop
Books by (Henry) Rollins
Books by Vietnam-veteran Bill Shields (check out the 2.13.61 Publications' website)

Cheerio.

On your reading list, you do not mention anything by Camus, and more shockingly, Turgenev. By attempting to enlighten people on the subject of nihilism by encouraging reading material and not mentioning turgenev is absurd. who do you think put the term nihilism into affect. who do you think started nihilism.

Fianlly, something to believe in! (sic)

Was going to say something witty and relevant, but didn't feel it was worth the bother.
H. A. Chancellor

I just want to say how elated I am to come across all of this material. I personally awakened slowly and stubbornly to the realization that nothing matters, and all is for naught. It has been an extremely difficult and depressing aspect of my life. At first I tried to ignore it and pretend that I believed in things, but I finally gave in and accepted that I just didn't. Now, I just believe that I don't believe! And, whether it matters or not, coming across such seemingly positive and happy outlooks on the matter may have saved my life. Thank you. I'm going to enjoy myself now.
Susan

EX NIHILO NIHIL

Elisha,

Thanks for your response to the web page. I'm in the process of an update and I'll be sure add a link to your page. Be Free & Nihilistic

:-) ........Sluggo

Dear fellow nihilist,

As a free thinking radical of nihilistic bent, naturally I was delighted

to chance upon your very excellent web page. But rather than boring you

with my usual, tired tirades on why everything sucks, let me suggest a

doctrine which arguably represents the only logical prescriptive ever -

namely what is known as negative utilitarianism (NU). I've composed an

extended discussion on this which I could send in future, but for the

present I'll just mention it in a nutshell, which goes something like

this:

"Suffering is the only phenomenon that ever bothers anyone in any real

sense. Indeed, everything else is trivial by comparison, for if we

didn't suffer, what would anything matter? One can readily exist with or

without such things as pleasure - either way it's is no loss. (Pleasure

is only necessary insofar as it is a means to reduce suffering, such as

boredom).As opposed to all else, suffering is always adverse by its very

nature. Therefore only its absence is of logical necessity, while all

other considerations should only be a means to this end."

This warrants some crazy obligations which among other things, might

possibly include the elimination of all life. Furthermore, the

simplicity of NU, today's corrosion of values, and the huge propaganda

potential of the information highway, all present an opportunity to

systematically subvert civilization with this doctrine, thus making the

reality of NU more probable. But how few know or need to know of such a

doctrine? Where does one even begin to advance it?

I should also mention that a small group of us (so far three in number)

are attempting to establish - or else participate in - a nihilist

organization. Naturally we've been unable to obtain much relevant

information in regard to NU or nihilism in general, so for all that it's

worth, we'd be grateful if you could write to us to discuss these issues

or else offer any other information you think might be relevant to our

cause, such as further links or suggested reading.

Regards,
xxxxxxxx

Try reading Te Tao Ching or Chuang-tzu... you have a lot to learn about

what Nihilism is. Nihilism is the stripping away of HUMAN values. It

brings us to a point where our dogmatic way of thinking implodes upon

itself. You then see things in a whole new light. Until you dispense

with rational argumentation (used in an effort to proselytize) you will

continue to be blind to what you seem to advocate.

The Tao is constantly nameless.

Regards,

Jason

Hi, you may like to look at "Eternity and Determinism" and "The dance of

the Ghosts" at http://web.idirect.com/~vagabond

william

Thanks for the URL elisha. excellent site, enlightening and entertaining, a

rare occurence on the WWW

I like the concept of your performance art. Reminded me of a (drunken)

conversation with an artist friend few months ago. His proposition was to

send out invitations describing an unmissable art moment, formal dress

required, champagne reception, atmospheric lighting, a room full of

pretentious wankers encircling a pedestal shrouded in a black silk sheet.

The lights would dim, a spotlight would indicate the entrance of my

friend.He would make his way through the crowd, like a boxer, with an

entourage in tow, obviously devoid of the razamatazz though (this is *art*

after all). The entourage would ceremoniously pull the sheet offof the

predestal, revealing a toilet. My friend would mount the pedestal, pull

down his kecks and proceed to have a shit whilst reading a newspaper.

Seemed like an excellent idea to me, don't know if he has/will do it

though.

Cheers,

Dave

Dear Mr. Elisha,

My wife, Betty Lu, and I accidentally stumbled upon your web site the other day and boy are we leaving more night lights on around the house these days if you know what I mean. No, but seriouosly what kind of medication are you on and where can we get us some of that thar potent mind altering concoction? You've got yourself a niche there boy and we're coming to the big city to flush you out cause we be god fearing and sheep loving chil'in of Bathsheba and The Herman known as PeeWee.

signed Jeremy Robert Lee Gettysburg Howwdy Howdy Come Right In and Set A Spell Johnson and Betty Lu

Actually it's pretty good Elish. I mean animation, moving pictures and sound would be something to squawk about but what you've done is darn extensive and lively, if you or somebody else knows what I mean. I'm proud of you bro-dude. The nihilist corner box was downright comprehensive and the photos were good quality on my box of electrons.

love and mass confusion ,your third from the last sibling enhancer, p

Dear Mr. Shapiro, we at Nihilware appreciate very much your site and find

its contents close to our vision of the Nihil. I suggest you to put more

fancy graphics in it, in order to attract the average Internet addicted.

Currently we run a monthly nihilist e-zine called Kondoria for the Italian

readers.

In the future we're planning to release an international edition: any

contributions from you would be much appreciated.

Come and visit us again.

Nihilistic regards,

HF

just looking

I stumbled on to your page while looking for this doomsday site someone told me about that's pretty close to your address. Must be.

Maybe this IS the Doomsday site.

Jesus.

Gotta go.

Looking for the straight-edged razors, the hootch, and the Seconal --

I remain,

Yours,

Jamo.

Fresh&Cool site!

Check

http://nihil.interware.it/

for Thee Nihil Club

Nihilgreetings,

Bruno Orso

******************************

"EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG"

******************************

Nice lingerie Fieldmarsh! We get a good clear picture here in Singapore.

Can't wait to see you again IN PERSON!

Aimlessly yours, Roxana and Garth.

Found your Web page! I notice I'm only visitor #20. Not much traffic, eh?

> How can you live if you don't believe in anything?

>

> It's not like a belief system is necessary to breathe, or to do any

> common human functions. Some expect me to spontaneously explode, or

> just kill myself. I don't even know why they think there is anything

> unpleasant about living without all that crap.

Interesting! So you've ALWAYS felt this way! Me? I had to unclog my brain over years and years to become as "valueless" as I am.

Lately I've realized that virtually every guilt-trip people can lay on you (i.e., "You're morally obligated to help the needy," or "We must stop all these abortions!") has an equally plausible, popular, and politically influential CONVERSE guilt-trip that contradicts the first one. (And each side has gods to avenge them: I'd like to see the resulting Olympian duels!) Now, you've been immune since birth - apparently - from these internal debates, whereas people such as myself have had to work hard to get out of such quagmires.

Not that it matters in the slightest that I did all that work, of course...

> GOD

>

> "Maybe there is some old guy with a long white beard sitting on a

> throne. Sure I'd be surprised...but would it really make any

> difference?

LOL.

> JUSTICE

>

> "One person's justice is another person's outrage."

See first comments, above.

> Something I Don't Like

>

> Paul McCartney

But Paul speaks highly of you!

> The world is random and chaotic.

I'm inclined to the belief that the world is BOTH ordered and disordered - partly from observation, and partly from the "belief" (oops!) that such dichotomies always appear in pairs - black and white, up and down, etc. Oddly, scientists themselves have arrived at the conclusion that the orderly "laws" of physics are accompanied by the "laws" of Chaos Theory, not to mention the uncertainties of probability theory. But you know all that stuff already, I suppose.

In all, your comments about Nihilism are clear, direct, and sort of a slap in the face! I'm impressed. Interesting page.

Are you thinking of adding a page of weird news items, a la the Nihilist Calendar - perhaps an archive or sample or teaser for the calendar? (As you know, "News of the Weird" and "THIS is TRUE" already post similar missives on the Web.) (Hey! Link to their pages! And then send mail to them, requesting that they link to yours.)

Jim

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